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<body> <h1>Full Version: <a href="index.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">How to stop illegal/cheap hits in NFL/NHL etc.</a></h1><a name="a36600_1"></a><p><b>From: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">#1</a>]<br /> 15 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: ALL</b></p> Caveat: I don't like cheap hits or flagrant fouls....never have, never will. It's unsportsmanlike and I don't understand where it has any place in sports.<br /> <br /> <br /> I was watching today's hockey game...I became a hockey fan last year. I still don't understand the rules very well - but it seemed during the Pens/Flyers game that a few cheap shots were thrown. One by a goon perhaps (do they still have such a role?). I thought: "How stupid - the goon comes in, throws a cheap shot at a good player, hurts the other team significantly, then takes his penalty or ejection." Is this normal for hockey? <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Anyway it got me thinking:<br /> <br /> ASSUMING THEY ACTUALLY WANT TO STOP "flagrant fouls" (like cheap/illegal hits/fights) - I thought the following would be possible for both the NFL and the NHL:<br /> <br /> Where an intentional flagrant foul is determined (as opposed to an unintentional one)....<br /> <br /> Individual Player Penalties:<br /> 1) Offending player is ejected for the rest of the game. If the foul is made within the last 5 minutes of the game, he must sit out for the remainder of that game, as well as the entire next game where he is eligible to play.<br /> <br /> 2) If he gets another cheap/illegal/flagrant foul again during that season - he is suspended without pay for 1 season's worth of games....they can run concurrently from season to season.<br /> <br /> Team Penalties:<br /> 1) A team gets 3 cumulative flagrant fouls per season by any combination of single or multiple players.<br /> <br /> 2) Any additional flagrant foul (4th flagrant foul and every flagrant foul after) committed by a single or multiple players on a team will result in the following:<br /> <br /> a) Any individual penalty above on the player committing the flagrant foul<br /> <br /> OR<br /> <br /> b) The team who has received the penalty may have the option of allowing 1) the person committing the penalty to serve out the penalty; <b>OR they may immediately designate ANY OTHER PLAYER ON THE PENALIZED TEAM to be ejected immediately and for the remainder of that game.</b><br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> I like the Steelers so I'll use them as an example :) : <br /> James Harrison commits 1 flagrant foul and is ejected. The next week he commits another (his 2nd) flagrant foul. He is suspended for 1 season's worth of games. Buh-bye. Then Hines Ward commits a flagrant foul in the same game - and he is ejected. The following week he commits another flagrant foul (the team's 4th) against the Bengals. Under my suggestion - the Bengals can choose to allow Hines Ward to 1) be suspended for 1 season's worth of games, OR may choose any other player on the Steeler's bench to be ejected for the rest of that game (and they pick Troy Polamalu).<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> This rule might never be actually used....but it would work IMO if they really want to stop the cheap shots. By the same token, the goals of the NFL vs. the NHL may be very different. LOL<br /> <br /> Robb<p class="edit_text">EDITED: 15 Apr 2012 by BOGEYSBGONE</p> <p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.1">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_2"></a><p><b>From: bcjim</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.2">#2</a>]<br /> 15 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">#1</a>] 15 Apr 2012</p> Not sure which "goon" you are referring to, Asham or Neal presumably. Asham, he is a tough guy, not sure I'd call him a proper goon, he has some skill. I expect he'll be gone for some time. Not sure what his intent was, but it didnt look good.<br /> <br /> Neal is moron, running people like that is uncalled for. I guess he just figures the season is done and he may as well get some shots in? No idea, like I said, moron. He should get a few games, then the Pens should suspend him for stupidity, they need him on the ice. Why he was running around playing the goon is beyond me.<br /> <br /> In general, hockey needs a pressure relief valve, it is such a physical game with accepted levels of pushing and shoving, never mind checking that you cant (nor do fans want) them to just start suspending everyone and eliminate fighting.<br /> <br /> I agree though that cheap shots/violence on the unsuspecting player has to stop.<br /> <br /> <br /> All that said, that was an epic game by todays standards and very entertaining to watch imo (in a car wreck sort of way).<br /> <br /> Teleport back to 1990 or so...that was a fairly routine game between teams that dislike each other.<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.2">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_3"></a><p><b>From: WRXGOLFR</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.3">#3</a>]<br /> 15 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">#1</a>] 15 Apr 2012</p> <p>NHL has no interest in eliminating cheap shots. Therefore it will never happen.</p> <p>I think the NFL is actually doing a good job of self-policing these days.</p><p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.3">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_4"></a><p><b>From: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.4">#4</a>]<br /> 15 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: bcjim</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.2">#2</a>] 15 Apr 2012</p> <p>Thanks for some perspective.</p> <p>I started following hockey more last year after watching 24/7 on HBO....Caps are our hometown team (as you know), but I also sort of follow Pens, NY Rangers and the Flyers. </p> <p>My nephews and some friend's sons play hockey but it's a different game - not much checking is allowed.</p> <p>Today's game knocked out the Pens; and as far as I know the Caps are 1-1 with the Bruins...that was a really exciting game too.</p> <p>Robb</p><p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.4">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_5"></a><p><b>From: grm24</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.5">#5</a>]<br /> 15 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.4">#4</a>] 15 Apr 2012</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=GEAFORUM&msg=36600.4">BogeysBGone</a></div><div class="quote">Today's game knocked out the Pens<br /> </div>For all intent and purposes the game today knocked out the Pens. The Flyers are up 3-0 in the best of 7. Game 4 and the probable finale of the series is Wednesday.<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.5">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_6"></a><p><b>From: BlkNGld</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.6">#6</a>]<br /> 15 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">#1</a>] 15 Apr 2012</p> <p>Your idea is an interesting one, but I suspect between the owners and the player's association it would never see the light of day.</p> <p>I'm a Pens fan, but I was disgusted by their behavior today. They're getting beat and can't handle it. I was close to rooting for the Flyers, and that's a tough thing for a Penguin fan to admit.</p> <p>I do agree with the broadcast guys... the refs have some leeway in getting rid of the guys that are running around acting like morons, and that was the case with Neal today. </p> <p>They give him a misconduct, and the Flyers don't feel like they have to take matters into their own hands.</p><p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.6">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_7"></a><p><b>From: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.7">#7</a>]<br /> 15 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: grm24</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.5">#5</a>] 15 Apr 2012</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=GEAFORUM&msg=36600.5">grm24</a></div><div class="quote">quote: BogeysBGoneToday's game knocked out the Pens<br /> For all intent and purposes the game today knocked out the Pens. The Flyers are up 3-0 in the best of 7. Game 4 and the probable finale of the series is Wednesday.</div><br /> <br /> Well - see what a dope I am? I thought it was best of 5. LOL<br /> <br /> Robb<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.7">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_8"></a><p><b>From: Former (PRESSELFAN)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.8">#8</a>]<br /> 15 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">#1</a>] 15 Apr 2012</p> <p>Ahhh...you wouldn't happen to be a lawyer, would you?</p> <p>Say what you will about the NFL, but it performs some indispensible services. First, it takes a lot of big, strong, fast, aggressive people off the streets.</p> <p>Second, by inflicting severe injuries on many of them, they are not as fast when their playing careers end.</p> <p>Third, it distracts people from politics, and thus lowers the suicide rate.</p><p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.8">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_9"></a><p><b>From: RickB</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.9">#9</a>]<br /> 15 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">#1</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <p>Ridiculously convoluted and totally unnecessary. </p> <p>The NHL has demonstrated time and time again they don't want to do away with thugs, goons and fighting, so let's leave them out of the equation.</p> <p>If the NFL wanted to stop it all they'd have to do is treat cheap shot penalties like soccer handles red cards. The player is thrown out and the team plays a man down on defense for the rest of the game. </p> <p>End of problem. No team could afford to let a guy like Harrison or Suh even suit up for a game.</p><p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.9">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_10"></a><p><b>From: Dave</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.10">#10</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BlkNGld</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.6">#6</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=GEAFORUM&msg=36600.6">BlkNGld</a></div><div class="quote">Your idea is an interesting one, but I suspect between the owners and the player's association it would never see the light of day.<br /> <br /> I'm a Pens fan, but I was disgusted by their behavior today. They're getting beat and can't handle it. I was close to rooting for the Flyers, and that's a tough thing for a Penguin fan to admit.<br /> <br /> I do agree with the broadcast guys... the refs have some leeway in getting rid of the guys that are running around acting like morons, and that was the case with Neal today. <br /> <br /> They give him a misconduct, and the Flyers don't feel like they have to take matters into their own hands.</div><br /> <br /> What most find entertaining/disgusting is the Pens whine the most about this kind of play yet they are one of the worst offenders.<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.10">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_11"></a><p><b>From: Badfinger (LUVPINGS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.11">#11</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">#1</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <p>The problem is many of there can be a fine line (subject to interpretation by a less than perfect official) between what is flagrant/illegal and what is just a good hard aggressive play.</p> <p>In all the effort you put into this, you did not mention the most obvious way to reduce the number of these fouls.....change the definition so that most of them are no longer flagrant/illegal by that changed definition. If a team/player knows that the other can retaliate without consequence, they might choose to not do it in the first place. </p> <p>Like the bully at school who wanted to fight everyone until you busted him in the mouth.</p><p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.11">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_12"></a><p><b>From: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.12">#12</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: Badfinger (LUVPINGS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.11">#11</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=GEAFORUM&msg=36600.11">Luvpings</a></div><div class="quote">The problem is many of there can be a fine line (subject to interpretation by a less than perfect official) between what is flagrant/illegal and what is just a good hard aggressive play.<br /> <br /> In all the effort you put into this, you did not mention the most obvious way to reduce the number of these fouls.....change the definition so that most of them are no longer flagrant/illegal by that changed definition. If a team/player knows that the other can retaliate without consequence, they might choose to not do it in the first place. <br /> <br /> Like the bully at school who wanted to fight everyone until you busted him in the mouth.</div><br /> <br /> It's just a way to actually enforce the "no flagrant hits" rule....IF they actually want to do away with it. And do it in a way that won't immediately kill the game. LOL<br /> <br /> In hockey it seems like the goon doesn't even need a stick....his job is to dish out hits and/or clobber someone. So under the current rules - it's a good trade-off - sacrifice a lummox (via ejection) so that you can remove the opponents leading scorer.<br /> <br /> Where's the incentive to stop that type of play?<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Robb<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.12">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_13"></a><p><b>From: David Bedwetter (BUBBA)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.13">#13</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">#1</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> Take away the helmets and all the padding and lets see how hard they want to launch themselves into each other.<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.13">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_14"></a><p><b>From: Sandy Parr, Anachro Capitalist? (NINEMILESKID)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.14">#14</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.1">#1</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <p>The NHL would stop cheap shot and fighting, but then they would have to figure out a way to survive with no one buying tickets or watching on TV.</p> <p>I'd like to see the WWE eliminate bringing foreign objects into the ring. Someone is going to get killed.</p><p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.14">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_15"></a><p><b>From: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.15">#15</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: David Bedwetter (BUBBA)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.13">#13</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=GEAFORUM&msg=36600.13">David Bedwetter (BUBBA)</a></div><div class="quote">Take away the helmets and all the padding and lets see how hard they want to launch themselves into each other.</div><br /> <br /> I think that is an effective way assuming that most of the players are afraid of hurting themselves. It's still self-policing and self-inflicting. The player gets to decide if he can withstand the punishment to himself.<br /> <br /> Under my proposed rule, the effects of a illegal hit are borne not just to the goon/illegal player, but takes a significant penalty against his team too.<br /> <br /> <br /> <br /> Sort of like a tough guy who won't talk under threat of torture b/c he's a tough guy and he doesn't care what happens to him. OK - so shoot his wife in the leg - see if he's so tough after all? :)<br /> <br /> Robb<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.15">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_16"></a><p><b>From: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.16">#16</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: Sandy Parr, Anachro Capitalist? (NINEMILESKID)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.14">#14</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=GEAFORUM&msg=36600.14">Vanity Bagger (NINEMILESKID)</a></div><div class="quote">The NHL would stop cheap shot and fighting, but then they would have to figure out a way to survive with no one buying tickets or watching on TV.<br /> <br /> I'd like to see the WWE eliminate bringing foriegn objects into the ring.</div><br /> <br /> Ah so....so it's sort of "necessary" to keep the excitement in the game? Sort of like watching car wrecks at NASCAR (instead of padding the walls or slowing the cars down)? <br /> <br /> Or are you kidding? Like I said I'm a new hockey fan....I'm not sure if you're kidding or serious.<br /> <br /> :)<br /> <br /> Robb<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.16">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_17"></a><p><b>From: Sandy Parr, Anachro Capitalist? (NINEMILESKID)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.17">#17</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.16">#16</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <p>I am totally serious.</p> <p>Watch the people banging on the plexiglass anytime there is a fight.</p><p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.17">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_18"></a><p><b>From: Sandy Parr, Anachro Capitalist? (NINEMILESKID)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.18">#18</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: Sandy Parr, Anachro Capitalist? (NINEMILESKID)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.17">#17</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <p>And I think if you race fast cars, there are going to be crashes.</p> <p>You can play hockey without fights. But then, who would watch?</p><p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.18">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_19"></a><p><b>From: Badfinger (LUVPINGS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.19">#19</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.12">#12</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> And then the other team sends out their goon and does the same.....and so it goes.<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.19">Reply</a></p> <hr /><a name="a36600_20"></a><p><b>From: BogeysBGone</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.20">#20</a>]<br /> 16 Apr 2012<br /><b>To: Badfinger (LUVPINGS)</b> [<a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.19">#19</a>] 16 Apr 2012</p> <div class="quotetext" id="quote"><b>quote: </b><a href="messages.php?webtag=GEAFORUM&msg=36600.19">Luvpings</a></div><div class="quote">And then the other team sends out their goon and does the same.....and so it goes.</div><br /> <br /> I suppose that's the "choreography" of a hockey game? You LIKE that?<br /> <br /> I don't have enough experience with hockey to understand if the goals of the NFL and NHL might be different.<br /> <br /> Thanks...I'm learning. :)<br /> <br /> Robb<p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=&replyto=36600.20">Reply</a></p> <hr /><form accept-charset="utf-8" method="get" action="lmessages.php" target="_self"><input type="hidden" name="webtag" id="webtag" class="bhinputtext" value="" size="0" dir="ltr" /><input type="hidden" name="msg" id="msg" class="bhinputtext" value="36600.21" size="0" dir="ltr" /><input type="submit" name="submit" id="submit1" value="Keep reading" class="button" /></form><p align="center">Show messages:  1-20  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.21">21-40</a>  <a href="lmessages.php?webtag=&msg=36600.41">41-55</a></p> <p><a href="lpost.php?webtag=GEAFORUM&replyto=36600.0" target="_parent">Reply to All</a></p> <h4><a href="lthread_list.php?webtag=GEAFORUM">Back to thread list</a> | <a href="llogout.php?webtag=GEAFORUM">Login</a></h4> <h6>© 2013 <a href="http://www.beehiveforum.net/" target="_blank">Project Beehive Forum</a></h6> </body>