GEA Golf Forum > Iron approaches per round

Full Version: Iron approaches per round

From: jvincent [#11]
 18 May 2018
To: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#10] 18 May 2018

Our club created official combination tees a couple of years ago to address guys who really needed to move up but not necessarily for all 18 holes.

We now have blue-black, blue-white, white-green combination tees that are officially rated. You might need to get your state golf association to do the rating, but if the club asks it's pretty easy to do.

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From: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#12]
 18 May 2018
To: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#1] 18 May 2018

At my home course with no wind from the back tees?

I hit irons into all the par 3's and irons or wedges into all the par 4's.

For the par 5's, I can reach the first one with a 5 wood with a good drive and an iron with a great drive; the second is pretty much unreachable from the back tees for me (about 580), so I usually hit a wedge third; the 3rd one is a metal wood or layup; and the last one I usually hit 4 or 5 iron for my second shot.

Course is 6950.

If it's calm, a course doesn't start to feel too long to be fun until about 7250 or 7300 yards long. I don't mind a long par 4 where I need to hit 4 iron or 5 wood once or twice per round, but anymore than that and it starts to feel like a slog.

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From: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#13]
 18 May 2018
To: Art.. (ARTMBGOLF) [#3] 18 May 2018

Art, with all due respect, most PGA Tour players are not hitting 7 irons from 200.

Most carry 7 iron around 165-175.

Do we see 200 yard 7 irons? Sure. But when they flash those graphics up on the screen, make sure you pay attention to wind, elevation, and green firmness. If you are hitting a 200 yard shot that needs to land 190 because it's going to take a big bounce and you are 30' above the green with a 5 mph tail wind, it's probably a 175 shot.

Also, keep in mind the TV likes to show the big hitters and, on weekends, TV shows the guys that are in the hunt. When you're looking at guys that have a chance to win on Sunday with 4 or 5 holes left, they are also getting 8-10 yards worth of adrenaline.

Even still, you're point is valid. Most everyone on the tour can hit it 285 off the tee and a 175 yard 7 iron. So any par 4 under 460 is a short iron hole.

Just looking at the ratios, if tour players average 7200 yard courses and average 192 yards of carry with 5 irons, than 37.5 times your 5 iron distance is basically the equivalent. I've always heard 36 times your 5 iron is a good rule of thumb and if you assume the tour guys can play a little longer course than we can because they hit it pure, 36 times 5 iron is a good rule.

If a guy hits a 175 yard 5 iron, 6300 is probably a good guide.

That said, some courses play longer or shorter because of design. When I go on vacation, I usually don't look at yardage. I play the tees that have a course rating close to 72.

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From: Combat Catcher (NINEMILESKID) [#14]
 18 May 2018
To: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#10] 18 May 2018

quote: Problem Golfer (DON M)
I can move up, although the rest of the group is not receptive. They need it just as badly as I do.

When I move up, I can only hit driver on 7 holes, though. What we should do is move up on about 4 to 6 holes. Then I'd have to work out the slope or whatever so I could post the rounds.


That's not good. I think hitting driver is perhaps the most fun shot in golf.

On the rare times I go out, I want to play a course that allows me to hit the driver at least a dozen times, and a lot of approach shots with an 8-iron or less.

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From: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#15]
 18 May 2018
To: jvincent [#11] 18 May 2018

Yep.

We've got the "player's tees" at our place that play in between the back and member's tees. There were about 12 guys in the 4-10 handicap range that got that done.

They've even got their own club championship division now. It kind of sucks, because they eliminated the B flight from the club championship. Although, this may be the year I move up.

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From: Spin Back (GUNNI) [#16]
 18 May 2018
To: Bogeydog [#5] 18 May 2018

How many GIR's ere there? How many do you average a round?

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From: Bogeydog [#17]
 18 May 2018
To: Spin Back (GUNNI) [#16] 18 May 2018

I'm not a big stats guy, but I hit somewhere between 8-10 per round.

The course is pretty penal off the tee so any shot that is offline is either a punch out, penalty or some type of hooking/slicing recovery shot.

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From: Art.. (ARTMBGOLF) [#18]
 18 May 2018
To: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#13] 18 May 2018

It seems like every week we are seeing the 200 yard 7 irons, but I
agree that they are the leaders and often the big hitters.

The 36 times 5 iron distance is a good guideline for course length to
play.

Courses that are par 70 or have 4-5 really short holes, play longer than
the length.

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From: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#19]
 18 May 2018
To: Art.. (ARTMBGOLF) [#18] 18 May 2018

Total yardage can be deceiving too. One course we play is 6100 yards from the "senior" tees. That would predict ideal for a 169 yard 5 iron. So it is a bit long for most seniors who only hit 140 to 150 yds.

But that isn't the whole story. Two of the par 3s are very short, as are two of the par 5s and two of the par 4s. Which means several of the par 4s are in the 380 to 390 range, way too long for a golfer who does well to hit a 200 yard drive. So many of those long par 4s are played like "short par 5s, hope to get a birdie 4 today."

This one below does it right, The Tradition. From the black tees it hosts tournaments like Monday qualifying for the Houston Open. The blue tees are for regular young, single digit handicap golfers. The whites for most non-senior men, the silvers for senior men, and the copper tees for the ladies and men who really can't hit it very far.

Most of our Thursday gang play the silver tees which at just under 5500 yards computes to a 150 yd 5 iron. It is an enjoyable course because it isn't too long and it is good to hit a drive and PW or 9 iron on many par 4s. Yet tee boxes, fairways, and greens are first-rate as you expect for a premium course.

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From: Bogeydog [#20]
 18 May 2018
To: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#19] 18 May 2018

The course in my neighborhood is private and I don't play there very much is deceiving.

Blue 7,007 74.2 137
White 6,536 72.0 130

I shoot the same scores from either set of tees because most of the lenght difference is on par 5's and short par 4's. From the tips I can still get within 100 yards on the par 5's and reach a couple with two good shots.

On a few of the shorter par 4's where I can't hit driver from the whites, I can hit it from the blues and leave the same approach.

My index got silly low for my ability level so I stopped playing from the tips.

For a mediocre golfer who is almost 52, I hit the ball fairly far. For example, off the tee, I carry my 3 wood just a little over 240 and I hit my 7 iron around 165. I'm also 6'2" and I work out 5-6 days a week so I think that helps.

I play with my FIL sometimes at his club. We play from 5,800-6,100. He's short and crooked off the tee so he can't play any further back, but if I were to move back, he would too, so I just play it shorter. I hit a lot of irons off tees because I'm just having fun.

You are right. You should probably seldom play from yardages where a well struck shot on a par 4 leave you where you can't reach the green unless you hit an exceptional shot.

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From: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#21]
 18 May 2018
To: jvincent [#11] 18 May 2018

quote: jvincent
Our club created official combination tees a couple of years ago to address guys who really needed to move up but not necessarily for all 18 holes.

We now have blue-black, blue-white, white-green combination tees that are officially rated. You might need to get your state golf association to do the rating, but if the club asks it's pretty easy to do.


We could definitely use that. Today I shot 78, which included laying up on 3 par fours.

4 approaches with my three wedges.
4 x 5i
3 x short irons
4 x hybrids
3 layups

12 greens, 35 putts. (Big greens.) That’s darn near as good as I can do from those tees.

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From: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#22]
 18 May 2018
To: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#19] 18 May 2018

I am actually a fan of the way you describe your course. I like variety.

My ideal course would have holes playing the following:
Par 3's - 115, 175, 200, 240
Par 5's - 495, 2 at 515-530, and one at 580+.
Par 4's - two around 300-320, two around 475-500, 3 around 400, and 3 around 430-440.

Total, if all the holes were level: about 7000.

I'd much rather play a drivable par 4 followed by a driver/hybrid or 5 wood par 4, than two identical holes.

Of course, the holes need to be designed properly. The short hole should have some risk reward for the tee shot and second shot and probably a tiny green. The long par 4 should have a wide fairway and a big green with limited trouble, so that a drive to a specific section of the fairway could make approaching certain hole locations easier and with plenty of room to avoid a penalty shot.

Basically, I want you to hit two ok shots into the short hole and be surprised you don't have an easy birdie. Then hit two ok shots on the long hole and be surprised at how easy it is to make a bogey. What I don't want is a 460 yard par 4 with a 25 yard wide fairway, O.B., and water. Here's looking at you, TPC Sawgrass 18th.

That's a course that's fun to play.

Of course, Rory or DJ on a hot streak would fly hybrid on my short hole to 15' and hit driver/8 iron on my long hole and miss any strategy of picking the correct side off the tee, LOL.

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From: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#23]
 18 May 2018
To: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#22] 21 May 2018

Understood. One problem with one layout, each long par 4 also has additional hazards, traps at the bend, pond fronting the green, trap fronting the green, valley right before the green, things making it impossible to run up a shot, those sorts of things.

The one that does it right, the Tradition, very short holes have additional hazards so you have to use some strategy. And even though many par 4s are similar length each is designed differently, including elevation changes, so each plays differently. That is a good design for an enjoyable round.

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From: kenoneputt [#24]
 18 May 2018
To: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#21] 18 May 2018

If you want to use a combo set of tees, it's simple to use the chart in the USGA handicap manual for unrated tees.

It adjusts both course rating and slope based on yardage.

K

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From: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#25]
 18 May 2018
To: kenoneputt [#24] 18 May 2018

I thought there was some guidance on the subject. If I can talk the guys into moving up on 4 holes, I'll work up the numbers.

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From: kenoneputt [#26]
 18 May 2018
To: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#25] 19 May 2018

Here's the chart

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From: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#27]
 19 May 2018
To: kenoneputt [#26] 19 May 2018

Thanks, Ken!
That’s very simple.

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From: Lets Go! 7 Rings for TB12 (LUVPINGS) [#28]
 19 May 2018
To: Art.. (ARTMBGOLF) [#3] 19 May 2018

I really don't care about comparing my game to the pros, or playing tees that would give me a chance to shoot the scores they do. To me, that would be like only running a 16 mile marathon because I want to run the same time as the elite runners. Yeah I could do that, but it would not be a marathon to me. I am not a pro golfer and don't want to manipulate the game to make me think I am. The yeah will come when I move up to next tees only to keep the game fun.

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From: ADAM (UWHUSKIES) [#29]
 21 May 2018
To: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#1] 21 May 2018

quote: Problem Golfer (DON M)
With our course getting into well-watered summer conditions, I'm going to be averaging only 9 approach shots with irons or wedges per round, with the others being 22 or 25 degree hybrids. Depending on the wind, on some days some of those hybrids won't even reach. I'll have the occasional 5 wood, but I just put that in the 22 hybrid column for this. Close enough for government work.

This suggests an average approach shot being a 6 iron for me. Not real bad, but getting close to time to move up a set of tees.

Anyway, it tells me I have half my approaches with two clubs, and I need to bear down and get those hybrids working as best I can!

How many iron and wedge approach shots do you have per round? Does it feel less like golf if you are not hitting mostly irons?


Irons into every hole unless going for par 5 in two or something crazy happens or 30MPH wind in my face. LOL!

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From: COME_AND_TAKE_IT! (HAX) [#30]
 21 May 2018
To: Problem Golfer (DON M) [#1] 21 May 2018

I played 9 holes yesterday and had exactly ONE iron approach.

I also was playing in a 20 mph wind and was either directly into it or directly with it.

For example:
Hole 1: 400 yard par 4 into wind. Driver and 4 hybrid from 170.
Hole 2: 350 yard par 4 into wind. Driver and 8 iron from 125.
Hole 3 185 yard par 3 into the wind 2 hybrid.
Hole 4 500 yard par 5 with the wind. Driver to 220 then 4 hybrid pin high.
Hole 5 365 pard par 4 with the wind. Driver to 55 yards. SW
Hole 6 195 yard par 3 with the wind. 4 hybrid
Hole 7 510 yard par 5 with the wind. Driver and 3 hybrid.
Hole 8 375 yard par 4 into wind. Driver wide left and 4 hybrid (crappy drive)
Hole 9 440 yard par 4 into wind. Driver to 210, then 3 wood to right bunker.

On that day I hit ONE iron approach shot. Everything else was hybrid, wood, or wedge.

Take the wind out of it...and I'd be hitting a lot of 6-PW into greens instead of hybrids.

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