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Full Version: Garcia and Crenshaw

From: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#1]
 16 Apr 14:12
To: ALL

Sergio Garcia and Ben Crenshaw teamed up in their member/member tournament at Austin Golf Club over this past weekend. Imagine everyone else spending weeks preparing for a tournament at their home club, then show up on the day of the event to realize their competition has three green jackets between the two of them.

From the article, "Crenshaw reportedly played off a 0 handicap, while Garcia played to a plus-5. Unsurprisingly, they managed to combine for the victory."

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From: motorespeeder (76MPG) [#2]
 16 Apr 20:29
To: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#1] 16 Apr 20:38

I don't know how often Crenshaw still plays, but +5 seems pretty light for
Sergio...

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From: thetwin [#3]
 17 Apr 8:22
To: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#1] 17 Apr 8:39

'I'll hit all the approach shots, Ben. You chip & putt.'

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From: BRENTW4 [#4]
 17 Apr 9:32
To: motorespeeder (76MPG) [#2] 17 Apr 9:33

That's what I thought. Scratch seems about right for ole Ben but I think Serg may have been skating by a shot ... :)

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From: 糞ホール (BUCKET_LIST) [#5]
 17 Apr 9:40
To: BRENTW4 [#4] 17 Apr 10:40

He only got to count the 13 as a double bogey for handicap purposes.

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From: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#6]
 17 Apr 9:44
To: motorespeeder (76MPG) [#2] 17 Apr 9:53

That may not reflect an assessment of their indexes or likely index.

For instance, that may just be what they were slotted in in their flight. Sometimes in those things, they don't just zero out in every match, they do it in the flight, also.

So if the worst player in the flight was +2 and Crenshaw was +2, they could have played them both at zero. That would have made Sergio a +7.

I know when we had a PGA Tour/Web.com tour guy think about playing in ours, I worked up an index for him (I was the handicap chair). I had him at +6.7 IIRC.

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From: motorespeeder (76MPG) [#7]
 17 Apr 9:53
To: BRENTW4 [#4] 17 Apr 10:40

Yeah:)

He gets a few alone by rattling guys nerves for the first several holes regardless. We've had the pro conversation around here before, but he has got to be a +7 or higher with several double digit differentials per year if you could calc a tour course.

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From: motorespeeder (76MPG) [#8]
 17 Apr 9:54
To: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#6] 23 Apr 15:29

Right, gear it off the lowest player.

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From: Hook DeLoft (CROUSE99) [#9]
 17 Apr 10:27
To: thetwin [#3] 17 Apr 10:49

quote: thetwin
'I'll hit all the approach shots, Ben. You chip & putt.'


Now, that's funny!

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From: Bogeydog [#10]
 17 Apr 20:35
To: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#6] 23 Apr 15:29

I played in a money game probably 5-6 years ago with Michael Bradley. He's a member at a course I play fairly often. We had him in as a +6 and he hardly played on Tour anymore.

The course was 6,700 yards, slope of 130 and rating of 72. He was complaining about having to play off such a low index. the guys made a deal and let him play with no club longer than 5 iron and he could play off scratch.

Typical of him, he griped about it and agreed. He proceeded to wax us all and shot 63. H just hooded the 5 iron and hit it about 250 off the tee.

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From: 糞ホール (BUCKET_LIST) [#11]
 17 Apr 21:48
To: Bogeydog [#10] 18 Apr 7:15

At 6700 hitting a hooded 5 iron off the tee probably saved him strokes.

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From: Bogeydog [#12]
 18 Apr 7:15
To: 糞ホール (BUCKET_LIST) [#11] 18 Apr 8:26

It was his best score there by two shots....

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From: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#13]
 23 Apr 15:46
To: Bogeydog [#10] 24 Apr 9:32

Yep.

The journeyman I was working up the indexes for was complaining to his potential partner when he was informed he'd play to +6 or +7 on the course.

I pointed out to his partner that I was playing to a 2.something index and had a course handicap of 3. In the two years prior to that event, the lowest 9 I'd shot on our course from the white tees was -2 and I'd managed that exactly once. I keep a legit index and post everything.

He admitted that his lowest 9 as a +2 was 32 and he'd managed that once.

Then I asked honestly, if the tour guy shot the best nine he'd shoot in two years on our course, what was he likely to shoot? He admitted it would probably be 28 or 29. I pointed out that that meant he was perfect as a +7. He'd give me 5 a side and if we both shot the lowest 9 we'd shot in 2 years, we'd probably tie.

And if he shot 33 or 34, I need 38 or 39 to match it, which also seemed about right. That's solid, but not special golf.

He pointed out that they "couldn't compete" with that many shots. I countered that they couldn't dominate. In a handicap event, they should need to play their version of good golf to win. That's the point.

But tour guys feel like if they can't come into a club event and win 90% of the time, it's not fair.

The opposite is true. If it's a handicapped competition, they shouldn't be anymore likely, at least on paper, to win as anyone else.

The reason, I think, there's a perception that mid and high handicappers win more handicap events is because they do. But it's not because they are somehow cheating or that it's easier for them. In some cases they can play better than their indexes because there's more low hanging fruit i.e. you can shave 5 strokes of a 30 handicapper in a month of practicing the right skill. You can't do that to a scratch.

But I think that's small. The real reason is that there are simply more of them playing a club event. At my club, there may be 10 guys in the member member playing to a 2 or less these days and probably 50 guys playing to a 10 or higher. By that alone, if a career low round is shot, it's 5 times more likely going to be by the higher handicapper.

The tour guy should dominate a scratch event, but they also should realize that a 2 handicapper isn't scratch and that 2 handicappers aren't the guys they used to smoke on the Tarheel Tour. A legit two handicapper will shoot under par a few times a year at best. And a web.com or pga tour player on a well manicured 6800 yard course playing a club event? They will probably shoot over par less than once per year.

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From: Bogeydog [#14]
 24 Apr 9:34
To: Spalding,GetYourFootOffTheBoat (FLOPSHOTBOY) [#13] 24 Apr 10:29

Perfectly explained. Thanks

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From: statechamp (COLE250) [#15]
 24 Apr 10:00
To: thetwin [#3] 24 Apr 15:42

As it should be lol!

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