GEA Golf Forum > Back to the Pro-v-1X

Full Version: Back to the Pro-v-1X

From: Mike (DESMOND) [#11]
 20 Apr 9:25
To: Shaggy (SHAGBAG) [#10] 20 Apr 9:55

quote: Shaggy (SHAGBAG)
They are the #1 selling ball for a reason.

Maybe not the X's, but the ProV1s.

Biggest difference vs. a Supersoft type of ball will be with the partial wedges spin.

If you can't get a 7 iron high enough to stop based on it's decent angle, the spin difference isn't going to matter that much.


Most ams will be fit to the ProV1x - they need the launch, height, spin.

Guys that get the ball up, up - the ProV1

The guys that get the ball up, up, up with too much spin - the AVX.

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From: Shaggy (SHAGBAG) [#12]
 20 Apr 9:57
To: Mike (DESMOND) [#11] 20 Apr 10:58

And with the previous generations, the opposite was true: The X was the lower flying, lower spinning ball for faster swing speeds.

I really don't know what Titleist was thinking last year when they made these changes.

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From: BH (BUMBLEBEES) [#13]
 20 Apr 9:59
To: Tom (TKTMSA) [#5] 20 Apr 10:26

"Yes. It's called "the joy of urethane""

LOL...YEP.

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From: Mike (DESMOND) [#14]
 20 Apr 11:00
To: Shaggy (SHAGBAG) [#12] 20 Apr 15:30

quote: Shaggy (SHAGBAG)
And with the previous generations, the opposite was true: The X was the lower flying, lower spinning ball for faster swing speeds.

I really don't know what Titleist was thinking last year when they made these changes.


That may have been before the 2015 version ...

I attended a 3 hr Titleist Ball Fitting with the guys from Mass, and with 7 guys - 5 were V1x, and two were ProV1/AVX - one of them hit it really high and with too much spin, and went AVX. The other golfer was on the fence, but he decided to go with AVX as the distance gains in mid to short irons was mind-boggling to him. They were willing to give up some greenside control for a lower, more wind piercing trajectory.

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From: Shaggy (SHAGBAG) [#15]
 20 Apr 15:32
To: Mike (DESMOND) [#14] 20 Apr 19:29

I have been playing ProV1s and Xs since they were introduced.

2017 is when they flipped the performance characteristics of the two balls.

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From: Mike (DESMOND) [#16]
 20 Apr 19:33
To: Shaggy (SHAGBAG) [#15] 21 Apr 8:36

quote: Shaggy (SHAGBAG)
I have been playing ProV1s and Xs since they were introduced.

2017 is when they flipped the performance characteristics of the two balls.


Disagree - I played the ProV1x because of higher launch and height. But they did change the ProV1 substantially in 2017 to reduce driver spin. The V1x spins a bit more now greenside, more than ProV1.

If you look at marketing the V1x in 2015 ... if you want a higher flight. The con on the ProV1 was spin off driver.

But the now is now .... and that's all that matters.

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From: Hoganman1 [#17]
 22 Apr 9:41
To: ALL

I did notice a difference in how the "X" performed before I switched to the SuperSoft last year. For years I thought the Pro-V-1 had more spin and flew higher and the "X" flew lower and was therefore a little longer of the tee. Apparently, that is not the case now.

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From: BRENTW4 [#18]
 22 Apr 15:31
To: Hoganman1 [#1] 23 Apr 7:33

I'll never go back to a Pro V1X. Then Taylormade TP5 X is just better in every way that matters for me.

But yeah, super low spinning balls lose their charm when the greens firm up.

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From: Mike (DESMOND) [#19]
 23 Apr 7:16
To: BRENTW4 [#18] 23 Apr 7:38

Having attended a Titleist event, their big claim is that each and every ball is consistent with the other, whether it's the balls in the sleeve or the ball you buy two months from now.

The implied that others do not have this quality control, and you see the claim in their commercials. Their company is built on consistency from one ProV to another .. or whatever Titleist ball you purchase.

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From: BRENTW4 [#20]
 23 Apr 7:46
To: Mike (DESMOND) [#19] 23 Apr 9:27

Yeah, I know. Not sure I buy it. When your top product is being outperformed, you have to have some kind of angle.

I really think so many people just play Titleist balls out of habit. It's their default. One of my good golf buddies is that way with everything in his bag. He's a very good player, in his mid 60s, played D1 college golf back in the day. He plays Titleist irons, Vokey wedges, Scotty putter, Pro Vs, Taylormade driver, TM fairway, TM hybrids. Has for as long as I have known him. He'll never change any of that brand loyalty and every time one of us trying a new brand of ball he smirks and rolls his eyes ... ;)

He's exactly the kind of ball buyer Titleist banks on.

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From: jvincent [#21]
 23 Apr 8:11
To: BRENTW4 [#20] 23 Apr 8:23

I posted a thread last year about a guy at my club who was fully indoctrinated by the cult of Titleist when it came to golf balls.

Good player, probably a 2 or 3 handicap only playing once a week. Had ALWAYS played the ProV1x.

I gave him a Tour Preferred to try and he picked up 10 to 15 yards due to better spin characteristics off the driver. He's now playing the TP5x.

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From: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#22]
 23 Apr 8:20
To: jvincent [#21] 23 Apr 8:25

Part of what Titleist is saying, or implying, is that balls like the TM may give you added yardage but will that yardage be consistent? That is, will one TP5X go 10 yards farther on that 5-iron shot and will the next ball out of the sleeve go 15 yards farther on the same shot?

Personally I doubt it but don't have any data to support or refute those claims. It all comes down to how well the manufacturing process is monitored and controlled. And consumers don't have access to that.

There is no inherent reason a Titleist ball factory would give more consistent balls. But maybe they do.

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From: BRENTW4 [#23]
 23 Apr 8:34
To: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#22] 23 Apr 9:45

Putting that doubt in the mind of consumers is a solid marketing/sales strategy, particularly to the better Pro V1 player who thinks he's a precision iron playing machine, but to me it's the kind of thing you do when you've rested on your laurels and your premium product is no longer the best product.

Jim Nance smarming poetic about how consistent they are, and Peter Kostis now mixing overt Titleist ball advertising into his slo mo swing analysis, just makes me more sure than ever I'm done buying them.

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From: jvincent [#24]
 23 Apr 8:38
To: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#22] 23 Apr 9:45

Titleist is using the FUD tactic that IBM pioneered in the early days of the computer industry.

They made $76M profit on their golf ball line of business according to their latest annual report making it by far their most profitable division. They are going to do everything to protect that.

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From: Mike (DESMOND) [#25]
 23 Apr 9:32
To: BRENTW4 [#20] 23 Apr 10:08

I think whether a ball outperforms another - ProV1 v TP5X, etc. depends on the golfer. I've read reviews where the results between them are slim to none, except for wind performance - Titleist always gets knocked down in reviews on wind performance versus TM or Callaway.

If we had/have time, we'd get fit for each of the OEM's balls, and then have a duel between fitted balls.

I'm not much of a brand loyalist, but I know guys who will only play ProV1 - we try to talk them into Snell, into CS-X, but no...

I use a variety - Snell MTB Red, ProV1X on deals or free, CS.

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From: Mike (DESMOND) [#26]
 23 Apr 9:33
To: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#22] 23 Apr 9:45

quote: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER)
Part of what Titleist is saying, or implying, is that balls like the TM may give you added yardage but will that yardage be consistent? That is, will one TP5X go 10 yards farther on that 5-iron shot and will the next ball out of the sleeve go 15 yards farther on the same shot?

Personally I doubt it but don't have any data to support or refute those claims. It all comes down to how well the manufacturing process is monitored and controlled. And consumers don't have access to that.

There is no inherent reason a Titleist ball factory would give more consistent balls. But maybe they do.


They claim that they have complete control over the manufacturing process - especially ProV1 line -- and that ability gives them the edge. They have an interesting story on how Acushnet was founded -- and it dealt with consistency.

Haven't seen anyone refute that claim... but everyone is now marketing aggressively against Titleist and Tity is fighting back in marketing - see their battle with Callaway where Tity compares its non-urethane Tour Soft against the Tour Caliber CS - a bogus comparison. Titleist should know better.

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From: NRJyzr [#27]
 23 Apr 11:03
To: Mike (DESMOND) [#25] 23 Apr 11:17

I have a buddy who was a devoted Pro V1 user. I got him to try a dozen ZStars by gifting a dozen for his birthday. He's upper single digit, below par iron player with excellent short game and putting. Over the time he used the ZStars, everything about his game improved. He remarked on holding greens better, better wind play, better short game performance... And he dropped his index more than a stroke with the Srixons.

Then his girlfriend bought him a dozen Pro V1s for his birthday and he's returned to The Cult. AFAIK, he hasn't deviated since his return.

It's sad to see one lost to the Dark Side

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From: Mike (DESMOND) [#28]
 23 Apr 11:21
To: NRJyzr [#27] 23 Apr 14:53

I feel your pain.

But I won an entry into a Titleist Wedge and Ball fitting event - 2 free rounds, 3 free wedges, 4 dz ProV1s, 4 free meals and drinks on the course, 2 nights in FL, and it cost $499 - not shabby and Titleist was great with a lot of swag.

Used the ProV1x with the new wedges, and they had stopping power similar to the Snell MTB Red, which stop impressively.

Still ready to test the NEW CS against both ... weather is warming up.

I think all golfers should compare. Personally, I think it's the Titleist Graphics that gets them -- they have the best graphics with that word "Titleist" and its simplicity.

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From: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#29]
 23 Apr 16:13
To: ALL

Got this email today, seems there must be more to it than meets the eye!

WINNING WEEKEND ACROSS THE GLOBE

It was a global sweep for Titleist as our brand ambassadors and golf ball loyalists combined for eight victories out of eight tournaments staged across the worldwide professional tours. Titleist golf ball players have now recorded 59 wins, more than six times the nearest competitor with 9.

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From: jvincent [#30]
 23 Apr 16:28
To: HTG (HOUTEXGOLFER) [#29] 23 Apr 16:32

Not really. My bet is Titleist is padding the numbers using the the smaller tours.

I haven't seen the ball numbers broken out by tour, but I bet that on the lower tier tours the percentage of Titleist players is higher than on the big tour because at that level the pay to play money means more.

If you look at the big tour more guys will be willing to play a different ball either because they get bigger $$$ because of an equipment tie in, thin Callaway or TaylorMade, or because they think it's a better ball.

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